Ladder vs Practicing With Team

Hey everyone I hope all is well.

I'm making this post regarding our team specifically. I really want to emphasize the power of working together as a team to help improve each other.

I've noticed for the past month, or ever SC2 was released, we don't really practice as a team. We play 1v1s on ladder and thats how we improve. Although I don't reject that idea, I really feel we should start practicing as a team. Here are a few reasons why:

• We can observe each others games, get feedback from players, and improve from that
  
• Practice without the fear of losing ladder points
  
• Practice specific builds against specific strategies
  
• Practice against specific match-ups
  
• Learn from others people play as you observe their games
  
• Bond with the team moreso than we already have and get to know the new recruits as well.

I just feel this is the future of our clan and improving and winning tournaments, clan leagues, whatever is how we help each other. Every major gaming team, EG, ROOT, fnatic, Liquid, etc, etc, all have practice sessions where they play each other and critique their play.

And after playing with each other, we can use ladder to refine our skills and improve our strategies.

So in essence, I would recommend either playing games with anyone you see on, or probably set up weekly practice times(not mandatory) where we can all play with each other? What do you guys say?

Great idea bobo, good approach to the problem more to the point. I practice alot off of ladder with you guys as you might know, and i've improved alot more from that than ladder. It is really easy to see the improvement when you go back to the ladder after practicing with a team mate.

I think that setting up times for weekly practice is a good idea and just see what numbers we get and after a few weeks see if its getting results.

It's actually quite amazing how much more beneficial it is to practice with somebody over and over again who is performing the exact same build order every game. You can also ask your team mate to do a certain build that you are having trouble with such as proxy 2 gate (fuck that shit! T.T). When you're doing this you can see certain patterns in specific match ups and you start seeing things more clearly. Great idea! :D

I am all for this. In fact, I am much more in favour of playing with teammates than playing on ladder. Whenever I am on I will always favour playing with a teammate compared to playing on the ladder. Let's schedule a regular practice time and see what people think.

Anybody want to make some suggestions?

Personally Saturday and Sunday mornings are good for me. Friday nights are often good too aswell as weekend nights but recently I've been sick plus mega busy with family occasions etc, has just been a weird month or so. Definitely keen to get into it more though! Especially if my team is there waiting to game it up :D

And what FighT says is absolutely true. You can improve so much faster if you have an opponent who is willing to deliberately execute a specific build you're having trouble with, to try figure out counters etc. It really helps a lot!

I completely agree with all of you guys. And not only by practicing your builds with other players help, it also helps the other people observing as well. You can really learn a lot if you observe and ask questions to the other people observing and theorycraft together, etc.

So I'll get this shit organized. First off I'm going to take votes on the days and the times. Just make a post about the days you can and can't go. Remember these practices ARE NOT MANDATORY. And people who want to be recruited ARE ALLOWED TO JOIN THE PRACTICES. This can also help Veom a lot in determining the activity of the players and their dedication to getting better.

Here are the days:
Monday(Australias Tuesday):
Tuesday(Australias Wednesday):
Wednesday(Australias Thursday):
Thursday(Australias Friday):
Friday(Australias Saturday):
Saturday(Australias Sunday):
Sunday(Australias Monday):

Make a post saying the days you can and I'll them as a tally.

Here are the times:
12pm Melbourne Australia Time(5pm PST):
1pm Melbourne Australia Time(6pm PST):
2pm Melbourne Australia Time(7pm PST):
3pm Melbourne Australia Time(10pm PST):
4pm Melbourne Australia Time(11pm PST):
5pm Melbourne Australia Time(12am PST):

Yeah I know the time zones kinda suck for those in the US and those in Australia but those are the best times I'm assuming that are readily available. Put down your votes guys.

We had those tournaments on at 12 pm on saturdays they got a pretty good turn out.

Saturday, Sunday are best for me that's Australian days :)

Monday to Thursday - any time after work (5.30pm sydney time - late)
If im scheduled to practice on any of those days i can be there for sure. Weekends I can come sometimes but not always.

Very keen to learn some new builds and get some advice.

Also, what tournaments are people regularly competing in? maybe we could pick a few that are held fairly often and try and get a good presence there. would be nice to have specific things to practice for.

Great idea. Weekends would probably be best for me. I should be able to make it at any time.

Working during the week really sucks for me to train with you lads. Weekends however, are a breeze :)

My opinions on the matter, from both the old BW days and now SC2 days, both have their advantages, and both have their cons.

Training with team mates really helps you refine a build order, figure out the niches and correct/improve minor parts of the build that can have drastic effects throughout a game. It also allows for positive feedback to improve certain flaws in game play, and really is the best discussion forum for tactics and decision making in a game (really hard to fault your own decision making, unless it REALLY BAD). Certain aspects like attack paths, angles, and attack times are far better with team mates. The obvious con is familiarity.

Ladder has the advantage of improving tournament\LAN play. Because you don't know what's coming, and imo, its far better for scouting then playing with a teammate. Why? Well you HAVE to actively scout, with team mates you get into rhythms and you understand their play style. I know I am pretty easy to figure out, I timing push, and play macro... You know you aren't going to get much variation from my play if you play me 20times, I might throw different strats and do something strange, but I always macro game it. Finally ladder has the one thing I value more than team training, thats you get to see the current trends in the community.

Personally I think depending on what you need to improve, both have their valid points, I train with team mates for my TvT because, its my weakest match-up. TvZ , I am very comfortable with, so not so much. I think its just a matter of asking, what do I need to get out of practise today?

Anyway theres my two cents on the matter :)

Pioneer wrote:

Working during the week really sucks for me to train with you lads. Weekends however, are a breeze :)

My opinions on the matter, from both the old BW days and now SC2 days, both have their advantages, and both have their cons.

Training with team mates really helps you refine a build order, figure out the niches and correct/improve minor parts of the build that can have drastic effects throughout a game. It also allows for positive feedback to improve certain flaws in game play, and really is the best discussion forum for tactics and decision making in a game (really hard to fault your own decision making, unless it REALLY BAD). Certain aspects like attack paths, angles, and attack times are far better with team mates. The obvious con is familiarity.

Ladder has the advantage of improving tournament\LAN play. Because you don't know what's coming, and imo, its far better for scouting then playing with a teammate. Why? Well you HAVE to actively scout, with team mates you get into rhythms and you understand their play style. I know I am pretty easy to figure out, I timing push, and play macro... You know you aren't going to get much variation from my play if you play me 20times, I might throw different strats and do something strange, but I always macro game it. Finally ladder has the one thing I value more than team training, thats you get to see the current trends in the community.

Personally I think depending on what you need to improve, both have their valid points, I train with team mates for my TvT because, its my weakest match-up. TvZ , I am very comfortable with, so not so much. I think its just a matter of asking, what do I need to get out of practise today?

Anyway theres my two cents on the matter :)

100% agree :). The practice sessions are going to be just to help us improve and will go on as long as the players want it to. Of course people will ladder with themselves. Right now people only ladder and we hardly play with each other as a team. I'm trying to introduce this idea to get practice sessions as a team, seeing that most people only ladder.

EDIT: Fixed my horrible grammar. Thanks Dwain :).

Bobo you've gotta stop leaving words out of your sentences randomly :S

Damn right, the only correct way to typo is kurt style. N owh ati msay in?

I just realized half the people here probably don't know kurt, and I am now sad. :(

Regardless, no surprise that bobo wants everybody to play with each other. Things always get steamy with those boys from south of the border nomsain. ;p

Maar, you remind me the narcissistic docter from Scrubs. lmao! <3

Oh shit, that's right, Australia is south of the border, too. Keep those hands where I can see 'em! Just like you, Gil, to always be thinking of doctors and Cox. ;p

^ hahahah oh wow

Anyways, weekend sounds good to me since my availability during the week in aussie time is like 9AM to 5PM max.